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Your advice to "Shell-Shocked," the guy with the "baby crazy" wife, ignored how he obviously hasn't read much about pregnancy at 40-plus. At 42, this woman's lucky if she gets pregnant at all, and she's stuck with a guy who wants …Read more.
Thick And Tired Of It
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Crouching Tiger, Hidden Drag
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Dun Juan
I always recommend your column; however, I take issue with your slamming "Joe Spokes" for not directly asking out the girl in his bike group. Besides, only a fool would take a woman on a date and pay. It takes discipline, but if I invite a woman out, I ask her in advance to pay her way. This helps me weed women out. If they just want a free meal, they can go to the homeless shelter, and I won't have that terrible feeling of being duped into the meal and movie scam. — Outsmarting Them
If you're looking to "weed women out," you're on the right track. Sure, it's best to be on your guard against gold-digging users — to a point. Treating women like scam artists right off the bat — "I'd love to take you out to buy yourself glass of wine!" — is right up there with Kmart announcing over the loudspeaker, "Welcome, Kmart shoplifters!"
But, don't just take it from me. I posted your approach on my blog, and nearly 250 comments later, women confirmed that opening with a demand for separate checks is the best way to end up on separate dates. Here are some typical remarks from all the gold diggers: "Gretchen" wrote, "Women should never go on a date unprepared to pay for at least their own food, but to be told in advance is so weird and off-putting I'd probably stare at this (dude) with a blank expression and walk away." "Cornerdemon" was one of many women who said if money's tight, it would be okay to attend an art opening (free wine!). "Kristin" "always" offers to pay for her meal — or even the whole tab — but said if a guy "announced beforehand that I was expected to pay I'd tell him I'd let him know how dinner was."
Your approach not only offends women, it suggests you'll be fishing pennies out of a fountain to pay the tip — or making the wife pick through the trash for returnables before you'll let her take the kid to the dentist. Even if a woman has every intention of footing her share of the bill, her genes are driving her to make sure a guy's a "provider" — someone who has access to resources and a willingness to share them. But, wait! Gloria Steinem said women should get equal pay! Shouldn't they also pay equally, and from date one on? Sorry, but that notion confuses being equal with being the same. Men and women are biologically and psychologically different, and that isn't likely to change anytime soon. In fact, according to evolutionary psychologist Donald Symons, "Natural selection takes hundreds or thousands of generations to fashion any complex cognitive adaptation." So, good news! It should only be about 25,000 years until women leap at the chance to date you.
Until then, you'll probably be "outsmarting" a whole lot of women — right into the arms of other guys. These would be guys who know better than to buy dinner for some near-stranger on the first date, but who understand that a couple glasses of wine are the investment you make if you'd like to have a girlfriend before the next Ice Age. Now, although you say your approach "takes discipline," I have to say, I suspect it's more your philosophy than your actual practice. But, hey, if asking women to pay is working so well, why stop there? You're sure to be fighting 'em off if only you'll tell a woman she has to put her money in escrow before your date, just in case she runs out on the check for her $6 Merlot.
Resistance Is Feudal
After hearing stories of my dating misadventures, a married woman advised me, "If a girl tells you she wants to be friends, immediately tell her you have enough friends and walk away. You will more often than not be remarkably surprised by her actions after that." I nodded, but really have no idea what that means. — Befriended Again
Believe a girl when she tells you she wants to be friends — if you're both 5. At 25, it's usually code for "I find you sexually repellant." For some girls, however, it's code for "I find you sexually repellant but potentially useful." It sounds like your married friend wants you to understand that "friends" isn't going to morph into "with benefits" — unless you're willing to count the warm glow you'll feel when you unclog the girl's toilet just in time for her date. Her advice is good in concept; just don't take it literally. Squeak "I have enough friends!" and storm off, and you should indeed be "remarkably surprised" — by how quickly one man can go from the "friend zone" to the "no chance in hell with any of her friends zone."
Got a problem? Write Amy Alkon, 171 Pier Ave, #280, Santa Monica, CA 90405, or e-mail AdviceAmy@aol.com (www.advicegoddess.com)
COPYRIGHT 2009 AMY ALKON
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7 Comments | Post Comment
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As a man, I always expect to foot the entire bill if I ask a woman out. The land mine that I risk stepping on, however, is that the woman may get the idea that I expect "certain things" in return for a fully-funded evening. (I don't expect or feel entitled to anything in return.) To get around this problem, I try to have fairly brief, casual, low-cost first and second dates. Lunch at a casual dining restaurant, or a cup of coffee is ideal. Sometimes I even suggest just doing everyday things like grocery shopping! It's a great way to see what a woman is like "the rest of the time." If I am covering all date expenses but still not spending a whole lot, it's a win-win: she doesn't feel slighted or that I'm after something. She is less inclined to think I'm trying to get her into bed, than if I showered her with gifts and expensive meals. That can also signal desperation on the man's part if it comes too early, which is also unattractive. Once she gets to know me better and we've reached a point of honest communication, it's OK to go ahead and split the check, let her pay, continue to cover it all myself, whatever works for a couple.
Comment: #1
Posted by: Matt
Wed Sep 2, 2009 2:47 AM
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The guy who tells women they'll have to pay their way in advance should keep doing it - in fact, he's doing society a favor. One less idiot reproducing! The guideline is that the host pays. Since traditionally it was guys who asked women out, the guy was the host and therefore paid. That should relax as the relationship continues, but it works the same if a woman asks a guy out - she pays. What you're asking for is the pleasure of their company - nothing more and nothing less. Matt, I agree with you, btw.
Comment: #2
Posted by: Maggie Lawrence
Wed Sep 2, 2009 4:32 AM
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I can pay my own drinks and it's perfectly normal here (Denmark) for a dating couple to split the bill or take turns paying, and when invited out, I always offer to pay my share when the bill comes.
But...if some guy invites me out and then informs me I'd have to pay half the bill. Well, it would probably take a while for me to stop laughing so that I could reply "Thanks, but no thanks." Such behaviour is just crude, rude, stingy and overall unappealing. If the options were between a date with this guy and a meal at a soup kitchen, I'd pick the soup kitchen any day - and pay for it.
Also I would never dream of asking someone out and then ask him to pay his own way. It's like inviting your friends over for dinner and then charging them for the meal.
Comment: #3
Posted by: May
Thu Sep 3, 2009 6:30 AM
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Re: Maggie Lawrence--I agree with you completely. If a guy asked me out and then told me he expected me to pay, I'd decline politely. If I have to wait until a guy asks me out, then he can pay. But, if I were to ask somebody out myself, I'd expect to pay for everything, too. Reading stories like this makes me glad that those dating days are far behind me, and if something were to happen to my husband, heaven forbid, I don't think I'd even try to date again. I think I'd rather order a pizza and curl up with a good book or a movie (love Netflix on-line) and be happily alone than be with somebody like the LW.
Comment: #4
Posted by: Joannakathryn
Fri Sep 4, 2009 8:04 AM
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I love your new picture. You truly are the "Goddess."
Comment: #5
Posted by: Ernie Marquez
Fri Sep 4, 2009 8:55 AM
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I wonder if LW1 realizes that his objective of "weeding women out" is just making sure that the only women who date him are so desperate that they will put up with anything. Then again, maybe that's the only kind who will date him anyway and this keeps a higher quality woman from slipping in.
Comment: #6
Posted by: Joannakathryn
Fri Sep 4, 2009 2:32 PM
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If someone invites me, that person pays. If I invite someone else, I pay. Being 'invited' to spend my money on the entertainment of the inviter's choice, isn't a priviledge, it's a slap in the face. He's weeding out all but very desperate masochists with that tactic. Nothing like being told up front that the person wants to get to know me better, but already thinks he knows that I'm shallow and money-grubbing. My response would be along the lines of, 'sure I'll go out to dinner this Friday............... with someone else who isn't hostile and condescending to women.'
Anyone this selfish, cheap and entitled is not going to get better once you get to know him. He will always be a selfish controlling jerk with a chip on his shoulder who will be dividing meals, groceries, electricity bills, mortgage, and hospital bills down to the penny. 'I don't care if I make twice your salary, you still owe me half of the monthly bills.' soon to be followed by: 'What??!! Why should I pay any of the costsfor you to give birth to our baby?! YOU'RE the one who was pregnant!' and followed after that with "You better get back to work right away, because you owe me for all the money I spent on you while you were raising our kids.'
Comment: #7
Posted by: Redblues
Tue Sep 8, 2009 7:32 PM
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